Business of Apps Podcast

#206: Evolving apps: Meeting user needs and staying intuitive with Paul Sakhatskyi, Head of Product Marketing at Readdle

I think for all of us this experience is familiar. We download a new app we’ve been looking for to fulfill specific needs and for some time the experience is great. Then your needs may evolve and now you need a new version of the app to cover it. If your updated requirements for the app are more or less in line with what other people need, and if the developer closely monitor these needs, soon you’ll get the updated version.
Of course, the opposite is as likely - you may never get an update for the app, you can’t wait anymore and you go and download a similar app from other company. So, the question - how do app developers’ team can keep their users happy? On the other hand, how do you make sure that over time your app stays intuitive for its users?
Well, today we have Paul to talk about how their team handles these hard questions for their app Documents.
Today’s Topics Include:
Paul's background
About Readdle
The Documents app by Readdle quick overview
Staying ahead of app users' evolving needs
Introducing new features while keeping user experience familiar
Android or iOS?
Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Paul miss most?
What features he would like to see added to his smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Paul Sakhatskyi on LinkedIn
Readdle
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Paul Sakhatskyi:
"So this is a very interesting question because we can look at it from different perspectives. So, I think there are two components, major components in this area. The first one, you should definitely reflect current needs of your users all the time, addressing their requests, addressing their issues, addressing new technologies that emerge all the time. But at the same time, you need to look forward  to create something that people and users might not think about right now."
"We are using multiple things here. So first of all, we don't do dramatic changes that touch every single piece of the product. So we break it down into kind of components, use cases. So for example, we might redesign or create a new hypothesis, for example, an audio editing that we have inside the app. And we launch it."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#205: Unlocking app growth with Marketing Mix Modeling with Gary Danks, General Manager for AIM by Kochava

The field of app marketing is full of jargon. Just from the top of my head a few acronyms for you - ASO, CPI, CPA, LTV, FBI (sorry the last one was obviously a joke). Here is another one - MMM, which stands for Marketing Mix Modeling. Do you know what it is?
Well, in this episode Gary will explain it for you, showing how it works and why it’s important for you to use it in your app business.
Today’s Topics Include:
Gary's background
About Kochava
What is Marketing Mix Modeling (aka MMM), why it's effective for unlocking app growth
Key steps to implement MMM in a company's marketing strategy
Common challenges in adopting Marketing Mix Modeling
Android or iOS?
Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Gary miss most?
What features he would like to see added to his smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Gary Danks on LinkedIn
Kochava
MMM 101 A 3-Part Webinar Series
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Gary Danks:
"MMM is a methodology used to measure and analyze the impact of various marketing activities on your conversions. Now, where the sort of the confusion comes in is that it sounds quite familiar to the industry standard of last touch attribution. But to truly grasp marketing mixed modeling or MMM, it's important to distinguish it from last touch attribution."
"The biggest challenge is probably just old mindset. We've been in this industry for many years and last touch attribution is the standard form of measurement and it's been around for 12, 13 years or so. So quite often companies are testing MMM but they don't want to believe the data because they've maybe built lifetime value models of their last touch attribution."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#204: Transforming ‘meh’ to magic: AI-driven app engagement boosts with Steve Toy, Chief Executive Officer at Memrise

How many languages do you know? Would you like learn a new one? Science unequivocally says that it is good for your brain to learn new languages. You will thank us when you’ll be in your 70s or 80s :-) The thing is that on top of immediate benefits, it will help you to keep your brain healthy down the road.
Now, today AI is on the path to impact our lives on so many levels. Learning new languages is one of them and today Steve will tell us about how AI allowed his company to transform their Memrise app dramatically.
Today’s Topics Include:
Steve's background
About Memrise
Ai-driven features that enhanced user engagement on Memrise
The biggest challenges in integrating AI into Memrise
Using AI to personalize learning
Android or iOS?
Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Steve miss most?
What features he would like to see added to his smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Steve Toy on LinkedIn
Memrise
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Steve Toy:
"Well, I will tell you that we are probably still working on overcoming the biggest challenge that has been brought to us by all of this amazing technology. And that is unbelievable freedom, right? We now, because of what we've deployed, have given people the freedom to learn the words that matter to them, not the words that we decide in any given course."
"The first axis I alluded to earlier, is heretofore in school or in any course that you might take or in any of the other apps, you learn words in a certain order. Right? You're just marching everybody through the first 100, 200, 500, 1 ,000 words in the same order because you're marching everybody in lockstep to be able to interact with certain content and certain tasks.
But we don't have to do that. We have fully atomized dictionaries because no matter what words you know, we can start to run you into other experiences. And so that's the first level of personalization is let you decide why you want to learn a language."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#203: Helping retailers retain app acquisition gains with Thomas Butta, Chief Strategy & Marketing Officer at Airship

Do you like the holiday season? Yes - it is a hypothetical question, we all do. Why do we love this time of the year? Because this is the time when we all buy something nice, right? We download shopping apps and go ahead and pick up something we desperately need.
Ok - it’s all great but if you are a retailer and you launch app user acquisition campaigns during the holiday season, there is very important insight for you in this episode - so listen carefully.
Today’s Topics Include:
Thomas's background
About Airship
About the Airship's "Peak App Install Research" report
How retailers can improve retention rate for customers acquired during peak shopping periods (think Black Friday)
Key metrics brands should monitor to effectively drive app engagement
Android or iOS?
Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Thomas miss most?
What features he would like to see added to his smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Thomas Butta on LinkedIn
Airship
Peak App Install Research report
The Mobile Consumer 2023 report
Airship blog
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Thomas Butta:
"And we, we surveyed more than 60 million app installs. So of the number of apps that were installed during that period, we looked at 60 million new ones that were added to your device and we were very interested in understanding what happens after that peak shopping season."
" First of all, the way you onboard people is really, really important. I mean that idea of a welcome kit. So they download your app, right then and there you have their attention. What you do next is really important. So that onboarding experience, that welcome experience is really key. And what you're trying to do is two things. You're trying to get to know these people that are downloaded your app. And you're doing it in a way that's showing them with a little bit of information here and here, you can provide a more curated or personalized and relevant experience for them over there."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#202: App growth with affiliate marketing with Taras Kiseliuk, CEO at ClickDealer

I bet, as an app marketer, you are on a constant hunt for new marketing channels, right?
What do you know about affiliate marketing? If the answer is "zero", "not that much" or "I know what it is but what is your point" than you’ve come to the right place - we have Taras to tell us how affiliate marketing works for mobile apps.
Today’s Topics Include:
Taras's background
About ClickDealer
What is affiliate marketing, the main changes for the last decade
What affiliate marketing verticals were impacted by mobile the most
Effective strategies to grow app user base and revenue through affiliate marketing
KPIs to measure the success of affiliate marketing campaigns
Android or iOS?
Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Taras miss most?
What features he would like to see added to his smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Taras Kiseliuk on LinkedIn
ClickDealer
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Taras Kiseliuk:
" The last one will be, as cliche as it sounds like, would be AIs. AI is now doing all the media buying for us in some sense. In a way, the affiliate marketing is working as it worked before - you have to optimize and find the right spots, but now it's kind of like - hey, just trust the pixel, trust Facebook, trust TikTok, AI and so on and so on."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#201: Testing the app’s edge marketability with Deniz Kekeç, Performance Marketing Manager at InnoGames

I’m sure you would argue that the world of mobile apps is extremely competitive. By now, it seems like all business verticals have gone mobile and in some app categories, like games, e-commerce, social, the competition is really tough.
How do you stand a chance to win in this battle? This is the question we’ll tackling today with Deniz.
Today’s Topics Include:
Deniz's background
About InnoGame
Mobile app's unique edge (Unique Selling Proposition) identification
Methods and tools to test an app's marketability
Key factors to maintain the app's edge over time
Android or iOS?
Leaving her smartphone at home, what features would Deniz miss most?
What features she would like to see added to her smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Deniz Kekeç on LinkedIn
InnoGames
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Deniz Kekeç:
"In a competitive app market, determining what sets your app apart from others involves focusing on its Unique Selling Proposition (USP). Assuming your app performs well and maintains a low crash rate, here are some strategies to identify its unique edge: game narrative, gameplay mechanics, special features & LiveOps, marketing approach."
"We are using Sensor Tower mainly for competitor analysis. Quadrics for understanding our audience( coupled with our user surveys). For creative testing Meta is the main tool, however depends on the ad concept we happened to use SDK networks too. KPI's are depending on the test phase. For initial testing, i recommend to check upper funnel kpis such as CPI, IPM. For later phase i recommend mid funnel KPI s such as Retention and session duration etc."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

🎉 #200: How to grow an app sustainably with Mike Rhodes, Founder and CEO at ConsultMyApp

On one of the recent episodes of this podcast, we talked about the app growth, claiming that growth is likely the notion that has been discussed by app marketers the most. It’s like - wake up any app marketer in the middle of the night and ask her “what is your name?”, she would tell you “Growth”.
And yet - sustainable growth is what exists app marketers and developers even more. I don’t think that there is anybody who still doesn’t know that an app project is a marathon and to run it you need a sustainable strategy, you need a sustainable growth strategy.
So in this anniversary episode #200, we will be talking with Mike about “The Sustainable Growth Handbook” recently developed by his company ConsultMyApp.
Today’s Topics Include:
Mike's background
What services ConsultMyApp provides and its position on the market
What is sustainable app growth
Sustainable app growth key principles
How to balance user acquisition and user retention
Insights and examples of how data-driven decisions lead to sustainable app growth
Common pitfalls and mistakes that hinder app growth
Trends and innovations that will impact sustainable app growth
What Mike would like to change about digital marketing the most
Android or iOS?
Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Mike miss most?
What features he would like to see added to his smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Mike Rhodes on LinkedIn
The Sustainable Growth Handbook
ConsultMyApp
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Mike Rhodes:
"The biggest challenge I think our clients always see is siloed behavior where acquisition teams don't talk to paid, but acquisition teams don't talk to CRM and retention teams and and then the data doesn't talk together even if the teams do, they're not connecting the dots because they don't have a CDP or a warehouse, and they haven't got a reporting stat that sits on top. And that is the biggest single thing."
"I think the biggest issue is not with developers, but actually with the product marketers. And that comes when the wrong metrics are really being focused on. So things like installs, category ranking, the keyword ranking, these things are vanity metrics. You know, they don't really matter. Like how many a month you have. It doesn't matter to a large intent. What does matter is the users I got, how are they converting? How are they converting into meaningful users? It might be watching ads. It might be whatever your core metric is. But ultimately it's got to be understand that is the metric."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#199: Data-driven mobile app marketing with Summer Liu, CMO at SocialPeta

I’m sure you’ve heard this adage “Data is the new blood of the economy”. When you operate on a big market with lots of competitors you better make sure you make decisions about your business based on hard data.
App marketing is one of the brightest examples where this adage and it is so close to home. When the number of users of your product is in thousands, tens of thousands or millions informing your app marketing decisions with reliable data isn’t a question of should or shouldn’t but must.
In this episode, Summer will help us to learn about leveraging mobile ad data, competitive analysis tools, as well as share her advice for marketers who are just getting started in the app marketing space.
Today’s Topics Include:
Summer's background
What is SocialPeta
Leveraging app performance and ad creatives data effectively
Staying competitive in a crowded app marketplace
Upcoming features in the SocialPeta pipeline to benefit app marketers
What Summer would like to change about digital marketing the most
Android or iOS?
Leaving her smartphone at home, what features would Summer miss most?
What features she would like to see added to her smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Summer Liu on LinkedIn
SocialPeta
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Sumer Liu:
" If we talk about mobile ad intelligence tools, I think I can boast that there is no better platform that can be as friendly as SocialPeta. We dived in the mobile advertising business for over 8 years. We grew together with those top global publishers. We evolve our product from time to time. In the new era of AI technology, SocialPeta will firmly develop towards this direction on aspects like Ai recognition and analysis. We will draw the digital market picture in a much more intelligent way."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#198: App Growth Strategy: the Deezer’s case with Sherina Khalidi, VP Performance Marketing at Deezer

Ok, a bit of trivia to begin with - what is the most common and most used word app marketers and app owners use in a conversation about their apps in pretty much any country you can think of? Well, if they have a conversation in English that would be growth.
It’s that notion that everybody is agree is extremely important for a mobile app project to succeed. There is a set of app growth marketing techniques we all have heard about, tried ourselves and hopefully benefit from using. But because mobile apps’ audiences are different, we know that these techniques aren’t expected to be equally efficient for everybody and so it is always wise to listen to other app marketers’ experiences to learn something new.
In this episode, Sherina will share her experience with the Deezer app’s growth strategy.
Today’s Topics Include:
Sherina's background
The Deezer app and what people use it
Acquisition strategies that worked for Deezer
Data and analytics to inform the app's growth
Tactics to retain the app's users
Partnerships and collaborations to foster the app's growth
Emerging trends and tech to impact app growth strategies in the future
What Sherina would like to change about digital marketing the most
Android or iOS?
Leaving her smartphone at home, what features would Sherina miss most?
What features she would like to see added to her smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Sherina Khalidi on LinkedIn
Deezer app
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Sherina Khalidi:
"On the measurement front, at Deezer we use the triptic Attribution / MMM / Incrementality, and I would love to use AI to get a synthetic view of these 3 components to help me predict the outcome of future invest."
" As the mobile industry is maturing, I feel the good old recipe of UA and ASO will work less & less, and it will be more about building a strong brand that is able to connect with their users, in trust and authenticity. I think there's really something here for us to reinvent."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#197: Growing your app outside of the app stores with Jakub Chour, Mobile Growth at HER app

There is a decent number of ways to market your mobile app on app stores. I think by now we all know them so well - App Store Optimization to drive native traffic, paid user acquisition via Apple Search Ads or Google Ads, acquiring users via paid ad platforms from Meta, TikTok, Alphabet and some more.
But at some point - for savvy app marketers this point comes pretty early in their app marketing journey -  you realize that it is not the end of the story. As much as it makes sense to connect your app via built-in search on app stores or use paid ad platforms, there are more ways to build your app’s user base when you think out of the box, specifically out of the app store :-)
In this episode, we’re going to cover with Jakub a few app marketing techniques to grow your app outside of the app stores.
Today’s Topics Include:
Jokub's background
What is HER app and its competition
Ways to market an app outside of app stores
Affiliate marketing or referrals as an app marketing channel
Using Generative AI for content marketing: pros and cons
How Viral marketing works for mobile apps
Most overhyped app marketing channel
Takeaways
What Jokub's would like to change about app marketing the most
Android or iOS?
Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Jokub miss most?
What features he would like to see added to his smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Jokub Chour on LinkedIn
HER app website
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Jokub Chour:
"Well, I'll stick with the rule that says that if everyone else is doing it, it's not worth doing it.  I've seen a lot of outcomes from generative AI and I wasn't impressed in general for our niche. I mean like it's great to write an email, or, I don't know, a PR release, but it's it hasn't been great in the niches like ours."
"I wouldn't say channel, but definitely like Multimedia Modeling or Incrementality measurement are something that are like talked about a lot but I don't think that we are at a point to fully utilize that as I've seen some tools that are going this way. It's like telling a fairy tale. At this point  you can have it generating numbers, but for me, it is hard to trust it fully."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012