Business of Apps Podcast

In this episode, we're talking about app store visibility - and about the fact that organic and paid aren't two separate budgets.
Every channel you run, no matter where it starts, ends up on the same product page. And the platforms are watching what happens there.
To cover all this, we've got Stephanie Ino, Client Services Manager at Gummicube, about how ASO and paid search feed each other on the App Store and Google Play.
Stephanie explains why ASO is the home base every channel returns to, how Apple Ads and Google Ads send relevance signals back into the organic algorithm, and why the right split between the two depends on budget, app maturity, and how much relevance you've already built. She also covers Custom Product Pages and Custom Store Listings as a way to align paid traffic with the right creative, and why a younger app should build its ASO foundation before pushing paid spend through.
If you work in app store optimization, user acquisition, or app growth, this is a clear look at how the paid and organic sides of the store actually connect.
Today’s topics include:
ASO as home base - metadata and creative work together because almost every channel routes users back to the product page or store listing
Paid feeding organic - Apple Ads SERP placements and Google Ads Play Store placements both send relevance signals into the algorithm for the terms you're targeting
Striking the balance - there's no blanket answer, it comes down to available budget, app size, and maturity in the storefront
Younger apps first build relevance - get the ASO foundation and keyword rankings in place, then push paid traffic through at a lower acquisition cost
Custom Product Pages and Custom Store Listings - matching store assets to each paid campaign's strategy so the traffic you buy actually converts
Links and Resources:
Stephanie Ino on LinkedIn
Gummicube website
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Stephanie Ino
“ASO is where everything comes back to, kind of home base. Most of any channel will come back into that product page or that store listing.”
"When we're running Apple Ads, particularly for those SERP results, it gives that boost in relevance so that Apple understands that we have better potential to then rank organically for those terms."
“If we're working with a younger app in the storefront, we don't have that relevance built out yet within the algorithm. So we really want to focus on our organic and our ASO performance first.”
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Today we're talking about mobile A/B testing - and about the moment the app store hands you a winner.
Because that result is directional, not the truth. And if most of your traffic is paid, you may have measured the wrong users entirely.
In this episode, we speak with Scott Masters, Director of Strategy and Partnerships at Gummicube, about why mobile A/B testing is never set-and-forget.
Scott explains why most developers and marketers under-invest in testing, what a sensible cadence looks like - once or twice a month, with each test running at least two weeks to reach statistical significance - and why changing one element at a time is the only way to know what actually moved the needle.
If you work in app store optimization, user acquisition, or app growth, this is a practical guide to testing your product page properly.
Today’s topics include:
Why testing is never one-and-done - trends, user preferences, and app features all shift, and a static product page goes stale
Cadence and statistical significance - test once or twice a month, run each test at least two weeks, with traffic volume determining how long
One variable at a time - change the screenshot copy and the imagery together and you won't know which one worked
What to test beyond screenshots - title, subtitle, short and full descriptions, icons, and feature graphics all feed the strategy
Measuring what's real - platform confidence intervals are directional, so validate with pre- vs. post-deployment conversion rates across every channel
Links and Resources:
Scott Masters on LinkedIn
Gummicube website
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Scott Masters
“If you're not A/B testing at least once or twice a month, you're leaving users out there for other competitors to take from you.”
"It's not a one-and-done. You can't set it and forget it. It's just like with any other brand - you create a package for your product and you put it on the shelf. If it doesn't change over time, if you're not attracting those users with new materials or new approaches, it's going to get stale."
“The platforms will give you an estimated conversion impact and confidence interval for each test you run. But that data is directional. True validation of performance really comes from launching a test winner into the store and then measuring the pre-deployment conversion rate versus the post-deployment conversion rate.”
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

In a world built to fragment your attention, one news app made the opposite bet: fewer ads, trusted sources, and users who actually stay.
In this episode, we speak with Ramesh Ramalingam, VP of Product at SmartNews, about how a Japanese news app was rebuilt — not ported — for American users.
Ramesh explains why SmartNews users spend 20 minutes per session, why 79% of them don't switch to another screen while reading, and how that focus turns into brand recall for advertisers. He also covers contextual targeting without cross-web tracking, why the product looks different in Tokyo than in Los Angeles, and how a revenue-share model keeps publishers in the loop.
If you work in product, app growth, or media monetization, this is a conversation about building for engagement quality rather than scale.
Today’s topics include:
Engagement over scale — 20-minute average sessions and why 79% of users stay undistracted
Monetization model — native brand and performance advertising, programmatic where it fits, plus SmartNews+ subscriptions in Japan
Brand safety and privacy — contextual targeting, first-party data, and third-party validation instead of invasive tracking
Japan to US expansion — high-density vs. clean-white-space design, local publisher partnerships, and building credibility from scratch
Centralized vs. decentralized product development — core platform in Japan, market teams close to local users
Links and Resources:
Ramesh Ramalingam on LinkedIn
Smartnews website
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Ramesh Ramalingam
“What is interesting about SmartNews is it's not about the scale. We're talking about 50 million, but it's more about the user engagement. Our users spend on average 20 minutes in our product, which is very high.”
“From an advertiser perspective, yes, they do care about the reach, but trust is the most important aspect. We don't rely on invasive tracking across the web like other platforms do. What we built is a privacy-first, brand-safe environment.”
“We didn't take the Japanese app and plug it into the US. We made sure that it is customized to the user preferences in the US, and it's built for American users.”
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Everyone in app growth has an opinion on AI, web-to-app, and channel strategy — but few of those opinions ever get stress-tested in public.
In this episode, we bring you a live panel debate featuring:
Hannah Parvaz, Founder at Aperture
Ewelina Pendino, App Growth & Performance Marketing Global Lead at Binance
Veronica Lee, Global Performance Media Specialist at H&M.
The format is simple: six provocative statements — from AI replacing growth roles to data versus creative — and the panel, along with a live audience voting in real time, has to agree or disagree. Along the way, you'll hear which growth tasks AI can already handle, why fintech can't rely on performance marketing alone, and how changing a single optimization event cut cost per acquisition by 96%.
If you work in app growth, user acquisition, or performance marketing, this is what's real, what's noise, and what to try next week.
The panel’s topics include:
AI in growth teams — which tasks it already replaces, and why humans still own strategy
Performance marketing's limits — why trust-driven categories like fintech need brand channels too
Web-to-app funnels — near-double conversion rates and skipping the 30% app store tax
Channel strategy for 2026 — fewer channels done better vs. always testing new ones
Data and targeting vs. creative — where each wins, and the 96% CPA reduction story

What if the channel you've written off as "brand-only" could measurably lift your Meta and Google performance?
In this episode, tech journalist David Murphy is joined by Mike Fogarty, Head of Client Development at Tatari, and Lauren Frame, Director of Growth & Brand Media at Greenlight, to explore how a performance-first app brand turned TV from a scary experiment into an always-on channel that now accounts for over a third of its media mix.
Whether you're a growth marketer watching CACs climb on paid social, wondering how to measure a channel without click-through attribution, or curious whether AI-produced creative can fight TV's fatigue problem, this conversation offers a practical framework for treating TV as a performance channel.
Today’s topics include:
What Tatari does differently from a DSP: convergent buying across streaming, linear, and online video, with direct network relationships
Why Greenlight tapped out at 90% Meta and Google — paying more and more to reach the same non-converting users
The "TV is for big brands" perception, and the lessons from going into the Super Bowl in year one
Why you can't pick just linear or streaming: the Disney test that found less than 2% audience overlap
The targeting opportunities streaming opens up for a parent-focused app
How Tatari made TV feel like a digital channel: self-service activation, AI-powered planning, and real-time optimization
Measuring TV: dynamic baseline lift, ACR data, MMP integrations, and Greenlight's stack of Rockerbox, iSpot, Kantar, and MMM
Geo-based incrementality tests: streaming drove nearly 5x first-touch, new-to-brand customers vs. 1.1x for linear, with Meta reach up 4%, traffic up 8%, and funnel starts up 10% in test regions
AI-produced commercials: Greenlight's Peter Pan spot, creative ethics, and solving creative fatigue with new messaging every quarter
Honest advice for performance marketers still on the fence about testing TV
Links and Resources:
Lauren Frame on LinkedIn
Greenlight website
Mike Fogarty on LinkedIn
Tatari website
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Let's be honest — nobody wakes up in the morning excited to open your app. Well, some people may but definitely not all of them! And in 2026, the CRM teams that win aren't the ones sending more messages. They're the ones who know exactly who to reach, on which channel, at which moment — and when to say nothing at all.
In this special episode, we're bringing you the Business of Apps London 2026 panel 2026 CRM Trends: The Ultimate Guide to Customer Retention. It's a candid look at what retention really takes right now — from LLMs quietly rewriting app discovery to why downloads have become a vanity metric — told by three people running lifecycle for some of the UK's most recognizable brands:
Francesca Stringer of Sky
Jill Angus of Aviva
Isabelle von Matuschka of Studio LTV
The panel’s topics include:
AI is rewriting app discovery — consumers are outsourcing decisions to LLMs instead of browsing the App Store, downloads are becoming a vanity metric, and Sky is now prioritizing GEO over SEO.
Personalization is moving upstream — it's no longer about tailoring the message but about arbitration and orchestration: deciding who gets a message, on which channel, at what moment, and whether they need one at all.
Product and marketing are now a joint venture — siloed teams can't win retention anymore; feedback loops, shared data, and embedded partnerships are the new operating model.
CRM starts long before the email — ASO, custom product cards, and seeding the app into above-the-line campaigns and brand experiences (the M&S playbook) are the underused retention levers.
Trust is fragile — and the hot takes — trust dies by a thousand micro-cuts (irrelevant pushes, broken links); community is overrated as a retention silver bullet; and CRM must stop being email-led.

You know it better than us — the era of experimenting with AI is over. The question isn't whether to use it anymore. It's whether it's actually moving the numbers.
In 2026, the winners aren't the teams running clever pilots. They're the ones who've wired AI into the core of their growth engine — into how they find users, activate them, and figure out what those users really want.
In this special episode, we're syndicating the Business of Apps London 2026 panel AI in Action: Real-World Use Cases. It's a no-hype look at what's working right now — told through live examples from three people scaling it in practice:
Steve Young of App Masters
Anton Volovyk of Reface
Nathan Hudson of Perceptycs.
The panel’s topics include:
The AI tools actually driving results right now (Claude, n8n) — and where they fit
Case study: how Bite Pal's AI creatives were built and scaled
Deep dive: producing a 100% AI-generated video ad, start to finish
When AI is not the right answer — and the biggest mistakes teams make
AI vs. UGC and the changing role of marketing teams in the AI era

Performance marketers are running out of levers — and the one most teams haven't pulled yet is signal.
In this episode, we speak with Shumel Lais , Founder of Day30, about signal engineering and why it may be the most important skill in performance marketing right now.
Shumel explains what signal engineering actually is, how prediction models use behavioural data to identify high-value users before they ever convert, and why synthetic events — goals you engineer rather than observe — help ad platforms like Meta find better users faster. He also shares how subscription apps have achieved up to 50% reductions in CAC, and why, with everything else becoming automated, signal is now one of only two levers performance marketers still control.
If you work in user acquisition or subscription growth, this is a must-listen.
Today’s topics include:
What signal engineering is — and how it differs from simply tracking conversion events
How prediction models use behavioural data to score users by conversion probability
Synthetic events — engineering goals that don't yet exist to give ad platforms a sharper target
Why subscription apps generate the behavioural data depth that makes signal engineering work
The three components of an effective signal: volume, velocity, and precision
Why performance marketers are down to just two levers — creative and signal
Links and Resources:
Shumel Lais on LinkedIn
Day30
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Shumel Lais
“The concept of signal engineering is to see how we can manipulate that event to give the ad platforms a stronger correlation to the business value that you're after."
"A synthetic event is, ultimately, when we're creating an event that doesn't actually exist. These are not things that have actually occurred — but based on the data we take in, we can build this from scratch."
"When I think of performance marketing now, everything's become very algorithmic and very black box. There's less and less levers available for marketers to pull. I think there's only really two levers left — one is creative, and the second lever is signal."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Hi, welcome to the Business of Apps podcast!
Today, we have a special episode for you. We're featuring our recent webinar, presented by Aampe - agentic infrastructure for personalized experiences. It brings together four mobile growth leaders to cut through the AI hype and share what's actually working — from app user acquisition to retention.
This session goes beyond buzzwords to unpack the real unit economics of AI-driven testing, the challenges of letting go of control, and what companies like Blinkist are learning on the ground as they make the shift from automation to agentic systems.
Without any further ado, let's go!
The topics covered on the webinar:
The real value of ai in mobile growth today
AI tools for non-technical teams
What is agentic ai? (plain-english explanation)
Feature's "press play": automated aso at scale
Trust, control & human-in-the-loop
From automation to agentic: what gets harder
Building knowledge bases & setting guardrails
Letting go of control: risk/reward balance
Observability & attribution in agentic marketing
Blinkist × amp: real-world agentic crm
Strategic ai vs. execution ai
Reinforcement learning explained
 Final takeaways & recommendations
The expert panel:
👥 Sven Jurgens – Mobile Growth Consultant (Host)👥 Andy Carvel – Partner & Co-Founder at Phiture👥 Matt Dyson – VP Marketing, Blinkist👥 Ed Brocklebank – Head of Solutions, Aampe
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Brand visibility is no longer just about winning the attention of consumers — it's about being eligible to exist in the spaces where discovery happens.
In this episode, we speak with Lavinea Morris, Managing Director EMEA at M&C Saatchi Performance, about what it really takes for brands to show up in an AI-driven world.
Lavinea introduces the concept of "eligibility" — the idea that before an ad is ever seen, brands must first earn the right to appear. She explains how the rise of AI and generative engine optimization is reshaping discoverability, why performance marketing is now an organization-wide responsibility, and what the "eligibility tax" costs brands that aren't paying attention. From taxonomy and content to trust signals and data feeds, she makes the case that getting found is no longer the job of one team — or one channel.
If you work in performance marketing, growth, or brand strategy, this is a timely conversation about what it means to be visible when the machines are doing the filtering.
Today’s topics include:
Why attention metrics are more romanticized than useful — and what to measure instead
Brand eligibility: what it takes to be visible before an ad is even shown
The eligibility tax — the compounding cost brands pay for not showing up in AI-filtered spaces
How M&C Saatchi Performance's role has evolved from media buying to full-stack brand consulting
Why generative engine optimization (GEO) is becoming as critical as traditional SEO
Why performance marketing is no longer just the performance marketer's job
Why waiting is never a strategy — especially in a challenging economic climate
Links and Resources:
Lavinea Morris on LinkedIn
M&C Saatchi Performance
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Lavinea Morris
“It depends what attention means to you. Every brand or client will consider attention differently... I think it's a slightly romanticized metric. We have to be thinking about what happens before the ad was seen. How eligible is your brand? How are you able to be seen in the ecosystems that we're operating in?”
“Legibility tax is what I like to talk about — the price that brands pay for not being eligible. The reality is we're seeing rising costs, and it's not always because of the performance media. It's actually how you're showing up in these spaces. And are other brands doing better than you, getting that first mover advantage? What does that cost you?”
“We've spent so many years talking about getting the attention of the humans — be it creative, putting the ads in the right place at the right time. I think now it's so exciting: how do you get the attention of the machines? And that is a new space, but an easy space for us to be working in.”
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012