Business of Apps Podcast

#226: “User Acquisition in 2025” App Promotion Summit Berlin panel

Today, we’re excited to feature a panel discussion we hosted at our App Promotion Summit Berlin last December. It focused on a crucial topic for all app marketers: User Acquisition in 2025.
The panel covered a wide range of topics, including optimizing ad channels, the shift from attribution to incrementality, exploring new growth channels, and more.
It was hosted by George Natsvlishvili, Co-Founder at We Up and the panelists were:
Şebnem Alpaylı O'Rourke, Senior User Acquisition Manager at Stillfront Group
Mark Mukhin, Team Lead App Marketing at AutoScout24
Gaurav Bhattacharya, Performance Marketing Lead at Zenjob
Alper Taner, Head of Performance at BGNet Mobile

#225: Driving App Growth with A/B Testing with Tina Kim, Director of Product Management at Huckleberry Labs

Today, we begin with another trivia question for you - can you think of the best case for A/B testing? Are you thinking about a particular app, service, or product?
No - it’s bigger than that, I’m talking about the evolution of life on this planet. No, there is no a girl or a guy, sitting with a MacBook Pro and running A/B tests for all flora and fauna on this planet :-) My point is that testing is very fundamental and, if it will make you feel a bit more important, you’re doing it along with the Mother Nature.
To talk about A/B testing for driving app growth we invited Tina.
Today’s Topics Include:
Tina Kim's bio
About Huckleberry Labs
Using A/B tests to make confident decisions
Generating actionable insights with limited resources and tight timelines
Incorporating learnings from failed A/B tests
Android or iOS?
Leaving her  smartphone at home, what features would Tina miss most?
What features she would like to see added to her smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Tina Kim on LinkedIn
Huckleberry Labs website
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Tina Kim
" So A-B testing is really useful for when there is a shadow of doubt. Put it so whatever you A/B test, it's not some idea that you've picked from the air. It's always based off of some well-informed hypothesis, whether it be analyzing your behavioral data of your users or you've done some user research market research as well. There is always some well-informed hypothesis that drives you to build something."
"The other thing is where A-B testing can really help you move forward faster is during the development process, the design process, there may be countless arguments about the perfect copy. Some people are very particular about copy, but and we may spend like endless cycles just trying to perfect the copy, but that's not the point of the change. Let's just test it. And A-B testing is iterative. And so you find something that you feel good with, it doesn't have to be perfect, and you test it and move forward. And if you feel like there's opportunity to squeeze more juice, test it again, right? And so I've been able to move forward faster."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#224: Breaking down the Subscription Value Loop strategy with Phil Carter, Growth Advisor at Elemental Growth

In the future, history textbooks will be telling the story of how, at the beginning of the second decade of the 21st century, we all collectively jumped into the world of mobile apps. 
Now, you may be super excited about the growth of the mobile ecosystem or shake your head about its externalities, unintended consequences, but it’s undeniable - mobile apps take a huge spot in our lives. 
Today, a big chunk of the mobile app economy space belongs to app subscriptions - Netflix, Apple TV, Tinder, Duolingo, the list goes on and on. If you build apps yourself and monetize them with the subscription model, you will be really interested to learn about Phil’s Subscription Value Loop strategy.
Today’s Topics Include:
Phil Carter's bio
Key challenges developers of subscription-based apps face today
Identifying and refining the core value proposition 
Strategies to convert free users into subscribers, while maintaining a great user experience and ensuring long-term profitability 
Android or iOS?
Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Phil miss most?
What features he would like to see added to his smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Phil Carter on LinkedIn
Phil Carter's website
Maven course
Phil's Sub stack
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Phil Carter:
"The core of the subscription value loop framework that I teach about in my course is a company's core value promise. In other words, what is the value that you're providing to a user, and ideally to a paying subscriber, that is going to not just bring them to the product in the first place, but cause them to continue paying you a subscription over a long period of time?"
"And value delivery is typically led by marketing teams, sometimes with the support of growth product teams or sales teams if you have a B2B business. And value delivery is all about making sure that you have sustainable unit economics, right? You're going to have some amount of LTV that you get from users. But in order to have a sustainable business, you need a strong LTV over CAC ratio and a rapid payback period. And that depends critically on your cost of user acquisition."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#223: “AI breakthroughs: revolutionizing mobile app marketing" App Promotion Summit San Francisco panel

The holiday season is practically around the corner. We can all hear The Jingle Bells singing and some nice gifts from Amazon are waiting underneath the Christmas Tree.
Anyway, this week, we have yet another exclusive bonus episode for you, featuring the panel discussion from the App Promotion Summit San Francisco 2024.
As you know, we organize the App Promotion Summit several times a year to bring together app marketing, growth, product, CRM, and revenue executives. These events feature panels where industry professionals share their experiences and insights on emerging trends that significantly impact the sector.
During this year’s App Promotion Summit San Francisco, we held a panel dedicated to AI breakthroughs in mobile app marketing.
It was hosted by Jenny Pollock, Mobile App Expert & Founder of WOMEN AND AI and the panelists were:
Lindsey Witmer Collins, Founder & CEO of WLCM
Jillian Arnold, co-founder of Snapback
Xenia Kupriyanova, senior growth marketing manager at houzz
Nancy Roberts, president of CRAFTSMAN+

#222: App marketing success in the privacy-centric era with Nicoline Strøm-Jensen, Head of Program Management at Adjust

Last year, we celebrated the 15th anniversary of the App Store and Google Play. If you’ve been part of the app industry for all these years, you saw the sea of change in app marketing.We all remember the exponential growth of both stores, and the moment when they hit the ceiling. We witnessed the rise of freemium and subscription models, the introduction of app store optimization, and the burst on the scene of Pokémon Go, for Christ’s sake.
And then all of a sudden, it turned out that for all these years the industry had been missing one crucial component - the app user’s privacy. So, it’s been more than three years since Apple introduced its ATT framework, and, of course, GDPR fundamentally changed user data collection and digital advertising.
Today, we have Nicoline to talk about what it takes to achieve app marketing success in the privacy-centric era.
Today’s Topics Include:
Nicoline Strøm-Jensen's bio
The biggest obstacles for app marketers in the privacy-first landscape
Effective strategies for measuring and optimizing ad campaigns in today's privacy-focused environment
Emerging strategies tools and strategies to stay competitive and compliant
Android or iOS?
Leaving her smartphone at home, what features would Nicoline miss most?
What features she would like to see added to her smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Nicoline Strøm-Jensen on LinkedIn
Adjust website
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Nicoline Strøm-Jensen:
"So, the first thing I want to point out is that I often use the term “signal loss” as a buzzword in this field when discussing privacy-first approaches. So signal loss is what makes and has been making marketers the most nervous because in practical terms, this references device identifiers and device identifiers were the key granularity of data that marketers prior to the push for new privacy focus was what they used to efficiently target their user segments with personalized ads and promos. But even as an aspect of that and higher level was just to understand where their marketing dollars were bringing in the best return."
"And over the past three years, the industry has been working together. And this is something that I've talked about in different conferences or just with clients. That's one aspect that I have enjoyed. When I entered this industry, it was rather competitive and, you know, then we had this moment of, okay - we got to work together. We've got these different components and we're not going to be able to all see success without that collaboration. And so, going from that, the conversations that I have with clients are first and foremost, all right, I'm sorry, but we have to let go of the past."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#221: Shaping the future of app distribution: trust, growth, and regulation with Shalom Michaeli, Managing Director, Alternative App Stores at Digital Turbine

A quick trivia question - what was significant about the year 2008 technology-wise? It was the year when Bitcoin was introduced, and Spotify was launched. Am I missing something here? Right - both the Apple App Store and Google Play stores were launched that year. It was about the introduction of the new software distribution model for developers. Then followed the witty slogan from Apple: “There is an app for that!”, and both platforms began to count and brag about the number of apps released on those stores.
Moving forward, the status quo that was established was Apple only had one app store - an exclusive distribution channel for iOS developers. On the other hand, Google had multiple third-party app stores for Android, on top of the Google Play store. For a while, it felt like it was going to be like that forever.
And then “forever” ended. On March 5th of 2024, Apple released iOS 17.4, enabling third-party app stores on iOS devices within the EU, complying with the EU’s regulation.
On this episode, we have Shalom to talk about shaping the future of app distribution: trust, growth, and regulation.
Today’s Topics Include:
Shalom Michaeli bio
What is Digital Turbine
The impact of European regulations and new tech on the future of third-party app stores
Essential strategies for alternative app stores to build consumer trust while scaling their presence globally
How Digital Turbine uses research and partnerships to prepare for the future of app distribution
Android or iOS?
Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Shalom miss most?
What features he would like to see added to his smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Michaeli on LinkedIn
Digital Turbine website
Digital Turbine and ONE Store Expand Partnership to Globalize Alternative App Growth
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Shalom Michaeli:
"You know what, building consumer trust is crucial for alternative stores to compete with Apple and Google. Because the goal is not only to bring the user to install once or purchase once from your alternative application. The goal is to get a repeatable customer base that coming over, engaging, installing, spending, coming over again because they had a good interaction, because they had good experience."
"This is this is a perfect storm the way I used to call it and  for an app developer and for the entire ecosystem. Because this is the time when three elements in my opinion are coming all together. The regulation changes like DMA and few others that are happening across  the world in different countries. The second point is developers' needs for growth. And the third one is available technologies."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#220: Using cognitive biases to boost app engagement and revenue with Senior Product Manager at Cleo

One of the staples of app marketing is understanding of your customer. If you understand her needs, her likes and dislikes, her behavior, you can build a winning strategy to connect your app with people who will be your loyal users.
Now, do you think people behave rationally, logically? Sometimes they do but way more often their behavior is influenced by biases, cognitive biases. Wonder what this is and how it connects to app marketing? You’ve come to the right place, in this episode Angèle will answer these questions for you.
Today’s Topics Include:
Angèle Lenglemetz bio
What is Cleo AI
What are cognitive biases
Striking a balance between leveraging cognitive biases and ensuring ethical practices
Fitting using cognitive biases into the broader app development strategy
Android or iOS?
Leaving her smartphone at home, what features would Angèle miss most?
What features she would like to see added to her  smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Angèle Lenglemetz on LinkedIn
Cleo AI website
Cognitive bias definition
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Angèle Lenglemetz:
"Cognitive biases are like shortcuts that our brain takes to make decisions faster. They're really powerful because they tap into universal human tendencies, things like avoiding loss, valuing scarcity, or seeking closure.
At Cleo, we use biases thoughtfully. One example is loss aversion. People feel the pain of losing more intensely, something more intensely than the joy of gaining the same thing. So we leverage this with features like saving streaks. If a user is consistently saving, Cleo will remind them like don't lose your streak and it's super simple but it taps into that innate desire to avoid loss and it actually really works."
"I think as fun and as important as cognitive bias are, they are never more than like the icing on a solid cake. And they're amazing for enhancing an experience, but they won't work if the product itself doesn't solve a real problem. For app creators, my advice is therefore like first, focus on the fundamentals first. If your core product doesn't deliver value, no amount of nudging and cognitive bias layer you add to it will fix that."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#219: “Beyond 2024: innovative user acquisition strategies” App Promotion Summit San Francisco panel

This week, we are pleased to offer an exclusive bonus episode. As you know, we organize the App Promotion Summit several times a year to bring together app marketing, growth, product, CRM, and revenue executives. These events feature panels where industry professionals share their experiences and insights on emerging trends that significantly impact the sector.
During this year’s App Promotion Summit San Francisco, we convened a panel dedicated to innovative user acquisition strategies that are poised to shape the app industry moving forward.
It was hosted by Kevin Kinnison, Client Partner Lead at Adjust and the panelists were:
Sandy Shen, Mobile Marketing Lead at LinkedIn
Drew Hambke, Director of Marketing at Kongregate
Lomit Patel, Chief Marketing & Growth Officer at Tynker
Lenette Yap, User Acquisition Lead at Public

#218: Future of advertising: privacy and AI with Gaylord Zach, Head of Mobile Product at Verve

In this episode, we delve into the evolving landscape of digital advertising, where privacy and precision intersect. Our guest, Gaylord Zach, Head of Mobile Product at Verve, brings his expertise to the forefront, exploring how the advertising industry can adapt to a privacy-first world without sacrificing effectiveness. With regulations like GDPR and Apple’s ATT reshaping the ad tech ecosystem, Gaylord unpacks the challenges advertisers face today, from diminished data signals to the rising importance of trust and transparency.
Throughout the discussion, we learn how Verve is pioneering solutions like ATOM, their anonymized targeting technology, which identifies user cohorts while safeguarding individual privacy. Gaylord also shares insights into leveraging AI at the edge and integrating Google’s Privacy Sandbox to redefine audience targeting. Tune in to discover how advertisers and publishers can thrive in this new era of privacy-conscious innovation while maintaining meaningful connections with their audiences.
Today’s Topics Include:
Why targeting is crucial for advertisers and publishers
Verve's approach to user privacy in ad targeting
Privacy-first targeting approach
Addressing relevant audiences without identifying individual users
Practical example of such implementation
Handling big diversity in targeting
How Verve uses AI for its ATOM solution data processing
Example of such usage
What 3rd party ad targeting tech Verve team has tested and implemented so far
Links and Resources:
Gaylord Zach on LinkedIn
Verve website
ATOM solution
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Gaylord Zach:
"For publishers aiming to monetize effectively, it’s crucial to represent their inventory accurately so advertisers can confidently invest in ad placements. Advertisers need to target the right audience, personalize messages, and present them with the best possible creatives. This helps create a good match between the ad campaign and the user. Finally, advertisers must measure campaign success and attribute performance to the relevant placements."
"Our technology, known as ATOM—short for "Anonymized Targeting on Mobile"—enables us to identify relevant user cohorts and create audience segments directly on the user's device. This approach allows us to deliver personalized ads without relying on third-party data, thus preserving user privacy. "
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

#217: Cracking international app pricing with Jacob Rushfinn, Founder & Author at Retention.Blog

For every mobile app out there there was this moment when somebody in its team was making a decision about the app’s pricing. Coding an app isn’t easy, designing an app is not easy either but when it comes to deciding how much money you’re going to charge for an app, it is more complicated then one would think. Charging for an app copy, in-app purchase or app subscription are all not easy things to crack.
Now ask yourself - what if I want to go international with my app? How should I price my app in UK, France, Sweden, Japan, on Mars? Ok - the last one isn’t your worry, yet. Jokes aside, international app pricing can be really complicated and that’s why we have today Jacob to explain how it works.
Today’s Topics Include:
Jacob's background
Common mistakes app developers make setting prices for international markets
Building a global price index
Developing effective pricing strategies with limited resources
Android or iOS?
Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Jacob miss most?
What features he would like to see added to his smartphone?
Links and Resources:
Jacob Rushfinn on LinkedIn
Retention.blog
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry
Quotes from Jacob Rushfinn:
"Yeah, I think the most common one is just relying on Apple and Google. So Apple and Google in App Store Connect and Play Store have give you default price recommendations or price localization. So you input your price for the country, your base data of your largest in, and then they suggest, OK, what should your price be in these other countries?
And I think people often get confused about what Apple and Google are actually saying here. We look at these prices and we think, okay, Apple and Google know best, but really what all they're doing is saying, on the taxes and fees in those other markets, this is the price that would get you the same amount of revenue or equalized revenue across those regions. But they're not actually optimizing and maximizing for conversions in those local markets."
Host
Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012