Business of Apps Podcast

#56: Product led app growth with Tanya Sharma, Product Marketing & Strategy at Babbel

Mobile app growth and how to achieve it are in the center of any well-thought app marketing strategy. You may power your app growth with paid marketing or the product itself may lead its growth.
Every app has a diverse audience, some people find the app extremely useful and use it enthusiastically. Others are less engaging, and then there are those who download apps but hardly if ever, use them. Do you have an emotional relationship with specific apps? It’s okay. Most users do to feel connected.
Today’s guest is Tanya Sharma from Babbel, a digital language learning product. Tanya talks about product marketing and user acquisition to grow a database of app core users.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ Connecting the Dots: Tanya’s path as a consultant to app marketing to acquire users
✔️ Product Managing Marketing: Balance different channels to acquire different users
✔️ Growth Marketing Principles: Follow the lean startup method—build, measure, learn
✔️ App User Acquisition: Native or paid ads? Build sustainable scheme to power UI
✔️ Channel vs. User Acquisition Strategy: Awareness, conversion/direct response, retention
✔️ Product Life Growth Guard: Quality of users acquired, not cost to acquire users
✔️ Marketer’s Best Friends: Pay attention to loyal users to increase conversion rates
✔️ Referral Concept: Understand logic and motivation for users to recommend products
✔️ Key Takeaways: Leverage core user base by tracking and rewarding repetitive behaviors
✔️ Android or iOS? iOS
✔️ Favorite mobile app(s) today? KptnCook
✔️ What iPhone/iPad technology would Tanya find useful? Gesture controls, multitasking
Links and Resources:
Tanya Sharma on LinkedIn
Babbel
Quotes from Tanya Sharma:
“What got me really excited to move into product marketing and especially user acquisition was the idea of being in the intersection of being creative, having insights, analytics, and the business knowledge needed to actually bring the kind of users that use your product.”
“Measure is important because no growth marketer can exist without knowing success metrics.”
“What makes these loyal users so special is that they’re advocates of your product. They go out there, talk about your product, and bring you free new users.”
“Leveraging your core audience to expand your user base is the fastest and the cheapest way to grow and scale your product.”
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London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024
 

#55: App users retention with out-of-the-box thinking with Catherine Bostian, Senior CRM Tech Manager at Delivery Hero

On this episode we're talking about app users retention - one of the hardest nut to crack for any app marketer. The method to crack this nut we're suggesting is out-of-the-box thinking.
Sink or think? When you’re trying to solve a problem, no matter how hard you try, it can all be in vain. That’s when it’s time to think out of the box by being a lifelong learner.
Today’s guest is Catherine Bostian, Senior CRM Tech Manager at Delivery Hero. Catherine talks about how to apply out-of-the-box thinking to app user retention.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ Growth Marketing Career: Strategic and technical backgrounds to understand customers
✔️ Growth Marketing Levers: Power of code and communication for data-driven mindset
✔️ What Delivery Hero does? Online food ordering and delivery markets in a lot of places
✔️ Business Values: Delivering solutions, aiming higher, and caring about customers
✔️ Out-of-the-Box Thinking: Figurative box with walls made of categorical assumptions
✔️ In-the-Box Troublemakers: Common wisdom, soapbox speakers, and false assumptions
✔️ False Consensus: How humans overestimate how someone else will react to something
✔️ App User Retention Strategy:
Approach customer problems as opportunities to identify assumptions
Identify insights and elements, such as content
Test new and better ways of what you are doing to customers
✔️ Key Takeaways:
World views, marketing approach are subconsciously colored by assumptions
Be empowered to question and test assumptions to improve users’ experience
Not a one-and-done process, but a continual evolution of learning
✔️ Android or iOS? iOS
✔️ Favorite mobile app(s) today? Down Dog
✔️ What app technology would Catherine find useful personally? Augmented reality
Links and Resources:
Catherine Bostian on LinkedIn
Delivery Hero
Quotes by Catherine Bostian:
“I kind of picture it being stuck inside a figurative box where the walls are made up of assumptions and a world view that we spent a lifetime developing.”
“Out-of-the-box thinking has to be this explosive process where we come to understand what those assumptions and worldviews are, and then we can begin to break free of them by asking questions and testing as part of an iterative process.”
False Consensus Effect: Describes how we as humans overestimate how likely someone else is to react based on how we ourselves would react to something.
“Our worldview and therefore our strategy or approach to marketing is often subcounsciously colored by our assumptions. That doesn’t make us powerless, but rather that empowers us to question and test those assumptions to improve users’ experience of our product and also, hopefully in the end, their lives. Lastly, it’s not a one-and-done process, but rather a continual evolution of learning. Go forth and think outside the box.”
Brought to you by Business Of Apps
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App Data
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A message from App Promotion Summit
Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
https://apppromotionsummit.com/
 
London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024
 

#54: App Store vs. Google Play marketing with Christinne Cuyugan, Growth Marketing at Drops

Today mobile app marketers are in a constant battle to connect apps with as many users as possible and their battle field are the Apple's App Store and Google Play store.
After years of fierce competition, both Apple and Google have won the app war. Apple got the premium part of the market by delivering high-quality apps, but Google successfully scaled to reach a much broader market segment.
Today’s guest is Christinne Cuyugan, Growth Marketing Lead at Drops, a learning language app. If you want to learn a language, it only takes five minutes a day. At Drops, Christinne focuses on strategizing growth opportunities for the app and app store marketing. She talks about how app marketing is different in the Apple App Store compared to Google Play.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ Christinne’s Career Growth: Customer support specialist to user acquisition position
✔️ App Marketing Psychology: How colors, tactics impact user behavior to perceive brands
✔️ Drops: Focuses on building language essentials, such as vocabulary, into a habit
✔️ What are the similarities and differences between Apple and Google app stores?
✔️ Four Elements: Great screenshots, preview video, keyword strategy, and 4-star rating
✔️ Partnership: Focus on product/app to deliver Apple’s high standards for user experience
✔️ Evergreen Techniques: Screenshots capture app and testing gains trust
✔️ Mistakes: Apps fail, so prioritize acquisition and monetization for sustainable growth
✔️ Christinne’s Wishful Thinking:
Wants Apple to allow casting and downloads per keyword
Wants Google to be transparent with reporting and rankings
✔️ Other App Stores: Amazon and Chinese must haves
✔️ Android or iOS? iOS
✔️ Favorite mobile app(s) today? Drops and Too Good To Go
✔️ What app technology would Christinne find useful in daily life? Augmented Reality (AR)
Links and Resources:
Christinne Cuyugan on LinkedIn
Christinne Cuyugan on Twitter
Drops
Quotes by Christinne Cuyugan:
“Drops is a language learning app, whose main mission is to make language learning awesome and fun and beautiful.”
“You definitely need four things to make your app shine in both stores.”
“The first one or two screenshots definitely need to capture your app in the best way possible. It needs to be attractive enough for users to give your app the chance.”
“Even if your brand isn’t known, but the app is trusted and also you see what you would get out of it, I think that a lot of users would give it a chance.”
Brought to you by Business Of Apps
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Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
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London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024
 

#53: ASO & Paid UA duo: best practices with Arthur Kolayan, VP, Sales & Partnerships at Jellyfish

Ask a professional app marketer "what is in your marketing toolbox?" and he'll tell you - App Store Optimization, Paid User Acquisition, Influencer Marketing, PR, podcasts, TV and radio.
Now, you can split all that app marketing techniques into two buckets: Organic and Paid. Organic relies on distribution channels that you don’t spend your money on. With paid, you do. It’s that simple. As an app marketer, should you go with organic, paid, or both?
Today’s guest is Arthur Kolajan, VP of Sales and Partnerships at Jellyfish. Arthur talks about how to make the difficult choice between organic or paid app marketing.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ How Arthur got involved in app marketing: Recruiter, new role, and recommendations
✔️ Why is it called Jellyfish? True story—founders wanted something without ‘digital’
✔️ Organic App Marketing: Strategy and optimization needed to be successful
✔️ Paid App Marketing: Facebook, Instagram, and other channels for brand awareness
✔️ App Lifecycle: Conceptualizing, funding, developing, and marketing
✔️ Overnight success? Launching app without strategy requires marketing and money
✔️ When to launch: Anytime is the right time for marketing an app
✔️ App Visibility: Simple to find, download, generate profit; complex with number of apps
✔️ App Stores: Reasons why they exist to make informed decisions
✔️ Apple Search vs. Google Ads: Two biggest paid app platforms and marketing potential
✔️ App Ad Campaigns:
Optimize relevant metadata for high conversion and high visibility
Make keywords effective and creative by testing banners, copy, and users
Track data points (Conversion, cost, consistent organic/paid communication)
✔️ Android or iOS? iOS
✔️ What is Arthur’s favorite mobile app(s) today? Multiplayer gaming apps
✔️ What’s Arthur’s wanting with app technologies? Social audio
Links and Resources:
Arthur Kolayan’s Email
Arthur Kolayan on LinkedIn
Jellyfish
Quotes by Arthur Kolajan:
“The reality is that for organic to actually work, you need to have a strategy in place.”
“It’s some additional PR, but it’s more about app store optimization. It’s more about search engine optimization for your Website. It’s about creating this viral to loop some referral campaigns.”
“The right timing is actually any timing because when you launch, you want to support your launch with the proper strategy. When you grow, you don’t want to lose to small competitors.”
“If they stop marketing, they will die. ”
“You need to go where there’s less competition, and then you will be found. The reality is that less competition means less data. So, you actually are more likely to be found if you go into a competitive category because there will be more data about what people search for.”
Brought to you by Business Of Apps
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Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
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London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024
 

#52: Finance for App UA managers with Martin Macmillan, CEO and Founder at Pollen VC

A mobile app user acquisition funding is a crucial process every app business owner should know well to succeed. Too often it's being neglected and it leads to an app project failure. In this episode we want to fill the gap for app developers and brands and talk about an app projects funding.
Today’s guest is Martin Macmillan, CEO and co-founder of Pollen VC—a financing model for mobile apps and game publishers to unlock unpaid revenues and eliminate payout delays up to 60+ days. How? By connecting to their app store and ad network platforms.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️  App Business Funding: Solving app developer problems, payments
✔️  Use old financial services knowledge and new knowledge as app developer
✔️  Company Portrait: Digitally verify sold or displayed but unpaid receivables every day
✔️  Borrowing Base: Pull IP or ad network revenues and borrow up to 95%
✔️  Misunderstandings: User acquisition and financial staff need to speak same language
✔️  Key Metrics: Calculate user acquisition machine as an investment equation
✔️  Capital Stack: Start with cheapest, next most expensive, stop when it doesn’t make sense
✔️  Economic Laws: Demand-and-supply curve for UI for a mobile app
✔️  Public or Private: As companies get bigger, budget process gets harder
✔️  Android or iOS? iOS
✔️  What is Martin’s favorite mobile app today? Vivino
✔️  What’s Martin wanting with technologies? Longer battery life and a bigger keyboard
Links and Resources:
Martin Macmillan’s Email
Pollen VC
Pollen’s LTV Calculator and App Cashflow Forecaster
Quotes by Martin Macmillan:
“Most developers and publishers that we’re working with, they just want to know what is available, how much can I draw, and when can I get it?”
“The user acquisition is nothing more than an investment equation. How much money do you invest? When do you break even on the money? When do you get your return on your money?”
“A lot of people didn’t really realize whether their UA was likely to be ROI-positive or not.”
“Be very focused on profitability, as opposed to a source of capital or anything else. You want to be able to do everything that’s going to keep you driving towards maximizing your return.”
Brought to you by Business Of Apps
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A message from App Promotion Summit
Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
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London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024
 

#51: How to win Gen Z on mobile with Lexi Sydow, Senior Market Insights Manager at App Annie

How old were you when you got your first smartphone? These days, 98% of the Generation Z demographic have a smartphone and owned their first one by the age of 10. Why? Apps. 
Today’s guest is Lexi Sydow, Senior Market Insights Manager at App Annie. Lexi talks about how to build a winning Gen Z mobile marketing strategy. If you were born in the mid-to-late 1990s to early 2010s, then you’re part of Gen Z.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️  Why should app marketers consider different generations? Priorities and psychology
✔️  Gen Z Stats: Average user base doubled faster and engages 20% more frequently
✔️  Mobile Device Delight: App marketers offer personal, timely, and relevant communication
✔️  Why attract Gen Z? Formative years establish brand preferences and earn loyalty
✔️  Daily Active Users: KPI metric measured anytime app is opened during defined period
✔️  What app categories are most popular with Gen Z? Comics, social, and games
✔️  Time vs. Money: Gen Z spent time playing games, but interest grew in finance, shopping
✔️  TikTok and Snapchat: Gen Z marketing strategy should focus first on videos and images
Links and Resources:
Lexi Sydow on LinkedIn
App Annie
App Annie Report: How to Build a Winning Gen Z Strategy on Mobile
#16: 10 Actions marketers need to win mobile with Lexi Sydow, Data Analyst at App Annie
Quotes by Lexi Sydow:
“Gen Z is the only generation to grow up with a smartphone in their hands.”
“Every engagement of every session is an opportunity to delight a consumer.”
“Mobile offers a really great way to garner brand awareness and trust.”
“It’s all about tapping into this market in an authentic way that resonates with them, especially as they’re forming these habits and continuing to grow in their influence.”
Brought to you by Business Of Apps
App industry marketplace
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App Data
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A message from App Promotion Summit
Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
https://apppromotionsummit.com/
 
London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024
 

#50: How to effectively retarget for e-commerce with Thomas Yannopoulos, Director of Sales at REMERGE

How do app marketers engage consumers and keep them using their apps? This is not a trivial question. For the last several years, one of the top problems marketers had with their apps was a User Churn. The numbers are staggering - around 30% of users used an app within the first day since they had downloaded it and only about 10% or less within the next 30 days. 
But don’t lose sleep over app retention and engagement questions. Today’s guest is Tommy Yannopoulos, Director of Sales at Remerge. Tommy talks about the economics of mobile app retargeting to re-engage consumers.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️  Mobile Marketing Industry: Valuable learning experience getting acquired by competitors
✔️  Retarget: Engage consumers when they are not on your property to complete an action
✔️  Performance Marketing: Math equation that everyone is trying to crack and scale
✔️  User Acquisition: Communicate consistently with consumers
✔️  App Ecosystem: Losing consumers is part of the game; reduce churn to relate to brand
✔️  Audience Segments: First-time and previous purchases present different behaviors
✔️  eCommerce App Mistakes:
Lack of personalization
Lack of focus on seamless consumer experience
Use of poorly developed creatives not compelling to consumers
Challenge of measuring efficacy and incrementality of campaigns
✔️  Privacy Updates/Delays: Consumers have rights, companies obligated to follow them
✔️  Android or iOS? iOS
✔️  Favorite App(s): AllModern from Wayfair
✔️  What’s Tommy looking forward to with app technology in the future? 5G, Apple’s innovation
Links and Resources:
Remerge
Tommy Yannopoulos’s Email
Tommy Yannopoulos on LinkedIn
The Social Dilemma on Netflix
Quotes by Tommy Yannopoulos:
“User acquisition, that’s my biggest argument for why you should retarget. If it’s economically in the green for you, there’s really no reason why you shouldn’t do it.”
“You should retarget because you want to talk to your consumers on a consistent basis.”
“It’s important for businesses to stay engaged with their consumers because as we know, especially in the app ecosystem, losing consumers is part of the game.”
“The Holy Grail of retargeting, in general, is personalization.”
Brought to you by Business Of Apps
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A message from App Promotion Summit
Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
https://apppromotionsummit.com/
 
London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024
 

#49: What app publishers need to know about data today with Lior Barak, Co-Founder at Tale About Data

App data - how much does this notion actually tell you? It's been one of the most popular catch phrases but it seems its popularity doesn't really match its comprehension.
For the past 12 years, Apple has been establishing a huge mobile ecosystem with millions of developers building apps for iOS. What allows all those developers to build successful app businesses? Data for their app’s performance on the market.
Today’s guest is Lior Barak, author of Data is Like a Plate of Hummus and podcast host of WHAT The Data?! Lior talks about what app publishers need to know about data, today. Data runs the world and drives decisions.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️  Lior’s Book: Data is Like a Plate of Hummus (a tasty dish that you can enjoy)
✔️  Data strategies should consist of five ingredients to collecting and storing data
✔️  WHAT The Data?! Lior’s podcast covers various topics—from fake AI to privacy
✔️  Fate of iOS 14?
✔️  Happy that Apple’s taking initiative, not being forced to do so
✔️  Disappointed by industry’s reaction to Apple’s privacy update
✔️  Data for App Publishers: Serve the user; user does not serve them
✔️  ROI: Focus on features, not revenues
✔️  KPIs: One size does not fit all or always scale; depend on needs, business, and growth
✔️  Analyze and Optimize: Fix mistakes made collecting data by understanding users
✔️  Android or iOS? Android
✔️ Favorite App(s): Vivino wine app
✔️  What’s Lior looking forward to with app technology in the future? Holograms
Links and Resources:
Lior Barak on LinkedIn
WHAT The Data?!
Data is Like a Plate of Hummus
Tweets/Quotes by Lior Barak:
“Be a little more relaxed when using data. This is our biggest problem as we go forward in this industry.”
“Data is Like a Plate of Hummus—a tasty dish that you can eat and that you can enjoy.”
“We have so much data out there that is collected and stored, but the reality is, we can’t make sense of all of it.”
“With using data, with understanding your user, you will be able to actually give them a much better product, much better features, instead of focusing on your revenues.”
Brought to you by Business Of Apps
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A message from App Promotion Summit
Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
https://apppromotionsummit.com/
 
London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024
 

#48: Combatting mobile ad fraud in COVID-19 era with Luke Taylor, COO and Founder at TrafficGuard

Mobile ad fraud has been a dark shadow on the entire mobile advertising industry for a number of year by now. It's been growing fast - fraudsters keep inventing more sophisticated ways to steal, fraud detection and prevention companies do their best to keep up and being able to detect new kids of fraud and help brands to minimize its impact on their bottom line.
It is the ongoing battle.
One would hope that COVID pandemic would slow mobile fraudsters down and that would be really naive take on that. It is quite contrary. 
Today’s guest is Luke Taylor, COO and founder of TrafficGuard. Luke talks about the current state of affairs for mobile advertising fraud during COVID-19.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️  TrafficGuard: Full funnel ad verification and fraud prevention solution
✔️  Mobile Fraud Before COVID (BC): Reality ever since advertising started
✔️  Wasting Money? Measure what you want and what you should pay
✔️  Traffic and Trivial Changes: Audiences, behaviors, data, and privacy concerns
✔️  Buyer Beware: When looking for a bargain, fraudsters never sleep or stop
✔️  Transparency: What does fraud look like? Look after yourself, data, and ad spend
✔️  Android or iOS? iOS
✔️  Favorite App(s): 1Password
✔️  What’s Luke looking forward to with app technology in the future? On-device ML
Links and Resources:
Luke Taylor of LinkedIn
TrafficGuard
Quotes by Luke Taylor:
“Fraud has been happening in mobile space, ever since advertising was running.”
“Fraud is everywhere. It’s even hard for the premium sources to keep it at bay.”
“People have been forced to tighten budgets. Unfortunately, that means that many advertisers are chasing cheaper traffic.”
“Anywhere that there’s money, there’s going to be some aspect of fraudulent activity.”
Brought to you by Business Of Apps
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A message from App Promotion Summit
Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
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London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024
 

#47: App growth in 2020: Stitcher with Julie Booth, Growth Marketing Manager at Stitcher

Do you listen podcasts? Since they emerged as a new medium on iTunes in early 2000, they’ve grown to a huge source of information for people about pretty much anything you can think of.
Last year alone, 90 million people in the United States listened to podcasts at least once a month. They spend hours listening to hosts that they trust talk about all kinds of topics.
Today’s guest is Julie Booth, Senior Growth Marketing Manager at Stitcher. Julie shares how Stitcher has become one of the leading podcast platforms and apps.
Today’s Topics Include:
 ✔️  Favorite Podcasts: Everchanging list includes You’re Wrong About and reality TV recaps
✔️ How do people choose podcast apps? Depends on content, curiosity, and features
✔️ Product Design Challenges: People don’t always know what they want or will use
✔️ Stitcher Difference: Advanced features for customization and control specific to podcasts
✔️ Free to use Forever: Stitcher provides podcast listeners with a great listening experience
✔️ Geographical Anomalies: Average Stitcher user is older, affluent, and educated
✔️ COVID: App usage adapted from listening during commute, not at all, to remote routine
✔️ User Acquisition: Podcasting is still a niche entertainment medium and faces competition
✔️ User Acquisition Channels/Universal App Campaigns: Google, influencers, partnerships
✔️ Android or iOS? iOS
✔️ Favorite App(s): Facebook Messenger
✔️ What’s Julie looking forward to with app technology in the future? iOS 14 widgets, personal vs. professional privacy
Links and Resources:
Stitcher
Julie Booth on LinkedIn
Julie Booth on Instagram
Julie Booth on Twitter
Julie Booth’s Email
Quotes by Julie Booth:
“For the podcast app, we find a lot of people say they want a feature, but then never use that feature.”
“A podcasting app is really the frame, it’s not the picture.”
“We provide a lot of control to users that other apps don’t.”
“Getting people into podcasting is what I focus on the most...it’s really hard to get someone to switch apps once they’ve started.”
Brought to you by Business Of Apps
App industry marketplace
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Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
https://apppromotionsummit.com/
 
London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024