Business of Apps Podcast

#76 : Can ASO work hand in hand with performance marketing with Anton Tatarynovich, Senior ASO Consultant at Phiture

ASO (aka App Store Optimization) has been an app marketing service for a quite a while. Soon after the Apple’s App Store was launched back in 2008, people began to wonder how to get more downloads for their apps on the store and Google Play market joined the party shortly after.
It’s 2021 and it’s time to take a fresh look at ASO and see how it can actually work with other areas of the digital marketing , such as performance marketing, together.
In this episode, Anton Tatarynovich, Senior ASO Consultant of Phiture, a multi award-winning mobile growth consultancy, tells us all about it.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ Anton’s path: from a Sales Manager in a A/B testing company to the Senior Consultant at the top app marketing agency
✔️ Phiture - a hundred employee Berlin-based mobile agency with a broad spectrum app marketing expertise, famous for its Mobile Growth Stack concept
✔️ So what is App Store Optimization?
✔️ What ASO tools do we have and should use
✔️ How ASO and performance marketing can actually work together and feed each other with useful data
✔️ What results app marketers should reasonably expect from ASO plus performance marketing combo?
✔️ How ASO and Apple Search Ads can be useful to each other
✔️ What updates for app marketers has Apple’s WWDC 2021 brought?
✔️ Android or iOS? Actually both, no real preference here :-)
✔️ What app features would Seth miss most? Messaging via Telegram and listening music on Spotify
✔️ What is missing from mobile app technology? Better Apple’s App Store experience, tech & financial media for GenZ
Links and Resources:
Anton’s LinkedIn profile
Phiture website.
Quotes from Anton Tatarynovich:
I think a lot of companies still approach ASO as new, even though it’s been around for a quite a few years.
Essential ASO tools - two main ones, obviously the App Store Connect and Google Play Store Console. That’s pretty much are high level analytics what we check day to day to understand how the app is doing.
It’s really the key to align performance marketing and ASO for apps, especially when the sheer of downloads coming from paid sources is substantial.
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London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024
 

#75 : How Rapchat got to 7 million with Seth Miller, founder and CEO at Rapchat

Everybody loves music, right? Maybe not the same music, but all the songs you want to hear are at your fingertips. What if you want to do more than just listen, like create and write music?
Our today’s guest, to tell you the story of an app growth, is Seth Miller, CEO at Rapchat, which lets you create music and beats without using a computer to be heard, record, share, and get noticed.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ Rhyme Time: It’s like Snapchat for rap, so just call it Rapchat
✔️ Game Changer: Viral loop of ability to create and share songs with more than friends
✔️ Retention: Build a great product/product-market fit to minimize app users’ churn
✔️ Recording Studio: Too many core features can clutter the music experience
✔️ Product Market Fit: Qualitative survey data positively impacts engagement and retention
✔️ Business Models and Monetization: Rapchat went from ads to subscription products
✔️ Seth’s Key Takeaways: Don’t get lost in the sauce as you start to scale your app
✔️ Back to Basics: Who’s coming and why? Clarify and analyze user research and data
✔️ Android or iOS? iOS
✔️ What app features would Seth miss most? Sleep tracker and Twitter
✔️ What is missing from mobile app technology? Ability to turn off all notifications and distractions
Links and Resources:
Seth Miller on Twitter
Rapchat
Quotes from Seth Miller:
“It’s like Snapchat for rap.”
“Rapchat - the easiest way to make music on your phone. We really put a recording studio in your pocket for the everyday artist.”
“Build your own philosophy, your own system, and figure out what works for your product, your users.”
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London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024

#74 : Driving Growth with Engagement and Retention strategies with Nicole Chin, growth at Mindvalley

The app growth is the most popular and challenging topic among mobile app marketers. Pull away couple app marketers, get them some coffee and chances are they will drag you into a conversation about mobile app growth.
A mobile app lifecycle is a marathon that, like any other growth of a 🌱, crystal,  👶, it requires knowledge, planning and dedication. 
In this episode Nicole Chin, growth marketer at Mindvalley will tell you how to approach an app growth as a system and even somewhat automate it.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ Nicole’s path: from a management consulting to a growth marketer at Mindvalley
✔️ Mindvalley - a subscription-based app tech platform to sells online courses with a mindset of a startup, even after being for years on the market
✔️ AARRR - acquisition, activation, retention, referral, revenue, what the marketing funnel is all about.
✔️ App growth as a system, a holistic look at growing your mobile app
✔️ Is it possible to automate app growth?
✔️ How long should you wait to let your app audience to check out your app to see if it works for them?
✔️ How to get people who aren’t your app loyal core users to get back to your app? What puts they away?
✔️  Strategies to achieve mobile app users retention. Achieve the real engagement with the app, not clicking on the app for the sake of inflating the MAU to report your share holders on a quarter financial call.
✔️ The hardest part of the mobile app growth business
✔️ iOS vs. Android: iOS
✔️ First mobile phone: Nokia
✔️ Smartphone feature Nicole would miss the most leaving the phone at home: taking picture to stay safe from harassment on the street.
✔️ New software / hardware features Nicole would love to get on her iPhone: totally happy with what it does for her now.
Links and Resources:
Nicole LinkedIn profile: Nicole Chin
Mindvalley website - https://www.mindvalley.com/
Quotes from Nicole Chin:
There is a foundation that an app and a business has to reach first and it’s a product / market fit. A lot of times if you don’t reach a product / market fit, no matter what you do it’s gonna be difficult to growth.
It’s not a one size fits all, even within your product you can really drill down further for 20% who are coming back and what about the other 80%?
What you really want to know whether or not there is any traction for the app. So it’s really defined by users, installs and  downloads.
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Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
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London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024

#73: User Acquisition via Influencer Marketing with Lucia Aguilar, Founder at TATAM.digital

It’s mostly certain that many of you may being following so-called influencers on social media. You may follow Kim Kardasian or The Rock on Instagram or one of the came-out-of-nowhere girl or guy on TikTok who turned out to be so cool. And every once in a while you may even buy something that they introduced you to in videos. In other words - you know what is Influencer marketing first hand.
By now - it’s a huge industry.
On this episode we have Lucia of TATAM.digital influencer marketing agency to tell you about why and how this brand new kind of online marketing can help you acquire users for your beloved app.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ Lucia’s path from Unilever to own influencer marketing agency to promote mobile apps
✔️ TATAM.digital - influencer marketing with focus on performance to advertise subscription-based mobile apps
✔️ Influencer marketing KPIs tracking is real. Full stop.
✔️ Influencer marketing powers incrementality for a mobile app user acquisition. It provides less intermediary steps between a person’s intent and an instance of a mobile app download. 
✔️ Influencer marketing works for any kind of a mobile app.
✔️ Influencers can give future app users the best video intro that will make it crisp and clear what the app is about and how to use it.
✔️ In the world of iOS 14.5 Influencer marketing has a leg up against social media ad platforms and networks - it does not imply collecting and using mobile app users personal data.
✔️ As time goes by, more and more companies jump on using Influencer marketing to acquire users but still - marketers may don’t use analytical tools to track Influencer marketing campaign performance
✔️ Scammers continue to muddy the water of Influencer marketing and this is what Lucia would really love to see going away.
✔️ iOS vs. Android: iOS
✔️ First mobile Lucia owned was Alcatel T-331
✔️ The mobile tech Lucia can’t live without is Apple Pay. No cash. Mobile payments only.
Links and Resources:
Lucia LinkedIn profile: Lucia Aguilar
Lucia Instagram profile: @luliinvierte
TATAM.digital website - TATAM.digital
Quotes from Lucia Aguilar:
I think they (people who believe it’s impossible to track KPIs for Influencer marketing) like 60 years behind.
Great influencers are great content creators and communicators.
I haven’t found one (an app category for which Influencer marketing doesn’t work)
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Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
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London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024

#72: WWDC 2021 implications for iOS developers with Justin Welter, VP of Brand Performance and BD at AdColony

Every June, software developers around the world eagerly wait for Apple to release what it has in store for them. Usually, it’s technical iOS and marketing application updates.
Today’s guest is Justin Welter, VP of Brand Performance and Business Development at AdColony, which is a mobile in-app video network that helps publishers monetize their content through video ads.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ WWDC 2021: Apple announced APIs that’ll be easy for developers to use and save time
✔️ A/B Testing: Apple adds this feature that’s especially important for growth marketers
✔️ App developers still waiting for more info and insights from Apple about changes
✔️ Favorite Part of WWDC21: At the very end when earnings were announced
✔️ Apple’s armageddon? ATT impact was better than expected opt-in rates, best practices
✔️ Marketing 101: How well do you know your customers? What’s the benefit?
✔️ Android or iOS? iOS
✔️ What app features would Justin miss most? Google Maps
✔️ What is missing from mobile app technology? Reduce addiction to phone use
Links and Resources:
Justin Welter on LinkedIn
AdColony
Apple Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC21)
App Tracking Transparency (ATT) Privacy Protection Framework
Quotes from Justin Welter:
“Everybody knows apps, everybody has them.”
“From a developer’s stand point is, I think first and foremost, the APIs that they announced are going to be very useful for developers.”
“It feels like Apple had a big, kind of emphasis on the communication aspect of things.”
“I certainly think that there are enough reasons for people to want to develop on iOS.”
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Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
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London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024

#71: What does make an app a hit? with Sean Casto, CEO of PreApps

In the 1980s, the world was all about personal computers. In the 1990s, computer games became a thing. Starting in 2009, the last decade has been about mobile apps. Why do apps either have a short lifetime and fail to find space in people’s lives, or are spectacularly successful because of implemented systems, processes, and frameworks? Today’s guest is Sean Casto, CEO at PreApps. Sean talks about the past, present, and future of the app marketing business. PreApps’s mission is to continue to be the #1 app marketing agency that provides world-class services designed to help launch and grow app businesses.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ Launch Status: Development was fairly easily, but marketing to consumers was more difficult > ✔️ Why start PreApps? Support and implement the same systems, processes, and frameworks ✔️ PreApps Mission: Continue as #1 app marketing agency providing world-class services ✔️ Positive Impact: PreApps does what it does to transform the world for the better ✔️ People’s Needs: Same fundamentals, always wanting app marketing roadmap and path ✔️ Common Traits: Successful app businesses have two basic principles around customers ✔️ How does app destruction work? Pure innovation and ability to adapt to changes ✔️ App Business Owners: Fall in love with users, not products to solve their problems ✔️ App Growth Marketing: Hacks are not sustainable, make app unique and irresistible ✔️ Pre-interested, pre-motivated, pre-qualified, and predisposed? Download app instantly ✔️ Virility and Retention: Apps don’t really go viral by accident, there’s a science to it ✔️ Win-Win Referral System: Incentives cause conversations, which lead to referrals ✔️ How apps make money? Value Ladder - combine every business model to make profit ✔️ App Features in the Future: Innovative technologies (i.e., cryptocurrency, AI, privacy) ✔️ Android or iOS? iOS ✔️ What app features would Sean miss most? Calendar ✔️ What is missing from mobile app technology? ✔️ Hardware: Make it thinner and lighter ✔️ Technology: Remove notifications and other distractions
Links and Resources:
Sean Casto on LinkedIn
PreApps
Apple Worldwide Developers Conference
Quotes from Sean Casto:
“Everyone was so passionate and excited about the products they were creating, but unfortunately, 98% of them failed to be discovered.” “It still continues to be the wild, wild west as Apple and Google algorithms continue to figure things out and adapt with modern times.” “Any successful app business really comes down to two basic principles: 1) Attract high-quality,  high-value customers at an affordable cost, and 2) Retain, nurture, and grow the value of your customers.” “Growth marketing is really the process of driving your users to your app to download your app and purchase what you’re offering while increasing the appreciation of your app in the process.”
Brought to you by Business Of Apps
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Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
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London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024

#70: App Growth Rocket model with Luca Mastrorocco, Co-Founder of REPLUG

Are you interested in rockets? Do you watch SpaceX launches? Then, you know what a rocket is and the launch metaphor came to mobile apps from the space industry.
Today’s guest is Luca Mastrorocco, co-founder of REPLUG, a mobile app marketing consulting agency based in Berlin. Luca talks about a holistic approach to app growth scaling.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ REPLUG: Services include ASO, paid acquisition, retention/CRM, and tracking/ analytics
✔️ Rocket Analogy: Upgrowth business approach that’s simple to understand, communicate
✔️ Digital Infrastructure: Engine is the basis of the app that makes everything work properly
✔️ User Acquisition (UA): Plays role in upgrowth strategy from organic, paid perspectives
✔️ Acquisition Process: Meaningful conversion funnel goes from download to monetization
✔️ UX and UI: Make sure marketing works hand-in-hand with look and feel of product
✔️ Engagement: No business wants to just acquire users for the sake of it
✔️ External Factors: App growth depends on market conditions, competition, and COVID
✔️ Android or iOS? iOS
✔️ What app features would Luca miss most? Calendar
✔️ What is missing from mobile app technology? Virtual reality (VR) and surround sound
Links and Resources:
REPLUG
Luca Mastrorocco on LinkedIn
Luca Mastrorocco on Twitter
Luca Mastrorocco’s Email
Quotes from Luca Mastrorocco:
“Without the right infrastructure, obviously, the app cannot really work properly. We like to give the digital infrastructure or the infrastructure of the app a very prominent role in our work.”
“Conversion fund is being how we make sure that we don’t just stop where our user downloads. We make sure to convert them into paying users.”
“We really care about the look and feel of the app.”
“No business wants to just acquire users for the sake of it.”
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Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
https://apppromotionsummit.com/
 
London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024

#69: App Stores Trends in 2021 with Ariel Michaeli, CEO at AppFigures

Most of us wake up in the morning, check the weather, then the traffic on the way to work,  unless your office isn’t your desk, sitting next to your bed, and of course, catch up on social media. Throughout your day, you  spend time launching apps on your smartphone, smartwatch, or tablet.
Today’s guest is Ariel Michaeli from Appfigures, which takes a holistic view on the app industry  as a whole and provides insights on app trends. Appfigures offers ASO tools, analytics, and  intelligence to optimize for more organic downloads.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ Appfigures: All about building platforms and helping as many people as possible
✔️ Gamers and Brothers: Can we make a game for the iPhone and still pay our bills?
✔️ Word of Mouth: Eventually gave access to Appfigures and no longer making games
✔️ Most popular app categories:
Before COVID (BC): Entertainment, games, and business
After COVID (AC): Health and fitness, games, entertainment, and business
Both BC and AC: Travel and business
✔️ Shift: Do you use an app to watch TV on a big screen or video stream to a small device?
✔️ Top Grossing App: YouTube, but Tik Tok is climbing the charts and taking over
✔️ Evergreen Hits: Apps that depend on want vs. need, such as hottest games and widgets
✔️ App Market Mindset: How big is the market and how much are users willing to pay?
✔️ Subscriptions are key to success or failure; always look at competitors and similar apps
✔️ ASO: Whether or not to allow apps to track and target users for search or organic ads
✔️ Android or iOS? iOS
✔️ What app features would Ariel miss most? Email
✔️ What is missing from mobile app technology? Augmented reality (AR)
Links and Resources:
Ariel Michaeli on Twitter
Ariel Michaeli on LinkedIn
Ariel Michaeli’s EmailAppfigures
Mobile Download Index
Quotes from Ariel Michaeli:
“It’s always been for me about how can I build a platform that takes either something I’m really good at or something that I care about a lot or, something that I see me, myself using and turn it into a solution for as many people as possible.”
“That’s how the idea of Appfigures was born. We needed some sort of platform to track our own  data.”
“It’s easier to have a service that has an app, even if the service is mostly reliant on an app.”
“(App Market) For you to know that means the difference between success and failure.”
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Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
https://apppromotionsummit.com/
 
London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024

#68: App Growth story in 2021: FishBrain with Lisa Kennelly, CMO at FishBrain

What are most app marketers doing this year compared to last year? Probably not what they planned on, which was incremental app growth techniques and trying new user acquisition channels. Instead, they are trying to adapt their businesses to the world because of COVID-19.
Today’s guest is Lisa Kennelly, Chief Marketing Officer at Fishbrain. Lisa shares how Fishbrain has been dealing with the new app industry landscape and the app's growth story.
Are you hooked on fishing?
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ Mentality of Marketing: Sense of what should work for locals and worldwide
✔️ Fishbrain: App for fishing—the world’s most popular hobby
✔️ Fishbrain Data: Who, what, where, when, why, and how to catch fish
✔️ eCommerce: If you’re going fishing, you need to spend money on fishing gear
✔️ Spirit of Community: Based on emotions and relationships between people
✔️ Fishbrain Growth: Fishing’s an activity you could do during COVID
✔️ Retention and Competition: Challenge to retain customers who go shopping elsewhere
✔️ Partnership Criteria: Providers of maps, boats, brands, and data research
✔️ Marketing Channels: Google, Facebook, Instagram, affiliates, influencers, native ads
✔️ Target Audience, not TikTok: Plenty of young users, but not the revenue drivers
✔️ Subscription Model: Fishbrain Pro offer adds data to add more value
✔️ Key Takeaways: People management takes more time and energy than expected
✔️ Android or iOS? iOS
✔️ What app features would Lisa miss most? Camera
✔️ What is missing from mobile app technology? Too much reliance on smartphones
Links and Resources:
Lisa Kennelly on LinkedIn
Fishbrain
Quotes from Lisa Kennelly:
“Fishbrain is an app for fishing, and fishing is actually the world’s most popular hobby.”
“Even if you personally are not into fishing, I bet you know somebody very close to you who is obsessed with fishing.”
“We were able to take the social, turn that into utility, and in the last couple of years, we added in the eCommerce, as well. If you’re going fishing, of course you need to have a lot of fishing gear.”
“How do you keep people motivated? How do you see when they need a break? How do you balance that and find ways to keep them engaged? That takes a lot of effort.”
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Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
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London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024

#67: Managing the UK’s largest under 5’s app portfolio with Ian Irving, Senior SEO & ASO Specialist in BBC

If you live in the United Kingdom and have kids under 5 years old, then there’s a big chance that they play with apps on their tablet developed by the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC).
Today’s guest is Ian Irving, Senior Search Engine Optimization (SEO) and App Store Optimization (ASO) Specialist in the BBC Children’s and Education Department. Ian talks about what it takes to manage app marketing for the largest portfolio of mobile apps for children.
Today’s Topics Include:
✔️ Young at Heart: Ian’s journey from wanting to be a teacher to building apps for kids
✔️ BBC: Not only a reliable source for news, but educational and safe apps for children
✔️ Four Main CBeebies Apps: Playtime Island, Go Explore, Get Creative, and Storytime
✔️ App Marketing: You are not marketing to the children, you are marketing to their parents
✔️ Batman/Spiderman Line: Parents become uncool and don’t control their kid’s device
✔️ Three Primary Marketing Channels: TV advertising, socials, and organic SEO
✔️ App Stores: Top user acquisition, engagement, and downloads - Apple/iOS and Amazon
✔️ KPIs: Amazon app metrics are extremely limited; rely on external analytics providers
✔️ Seasonality: When audience undergoes specific emotional shift, increase acquisitions
✔️ AB Testing: Micro is variation of small elements; macro makes larger conversion impact
✔️ Learn Language: How marketers speak isn’t necessarily how people talk in real world
✔️ Android or iOS? Android
✔️ What apps and features would Ian miss most? Google Maps
✔️ What is missing from mobile app technology? Advancement of biomonitoring health
Links and Resources:
Ian Irving on LinkedIn
BBC
CBeebies Apps
David Attenborough
Amazon Kindle Fire 7
Amazon App Store
Quotes from Ian Irving:
“Every week, about 20 percent of 0-6 years old in the U.K. use one of those four apps.”
“You are not marketing to the children, you are marketing to their parents.”
“There’s a very, very clear line, which we call the Batman line or the Spiderman line and that is at 6 years old because once they hit that age, that’s when anything that their parents are trying to expose them to becomes uncool.”
“The idea of seasonality is when there are things happening offline, where your audience is undergoing a specific emotional shift, and the idea is that if you can catch them, if you can trigger that or align with that emotional shift that they are going through, you’re going to see an increase in acquisitions.”
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Discounted ticket prices are currently available on all of our 2024 summits
https://apppromotionsummit.com/
 
London - 25 Apr 2024
NYC - 27 Jun 2024
San Francisco - 26 Sep 2024
Berlin - 5 Dec 2024